Template:Infobox vehicles
The Buffalo is a vehicle that appeared as a muscle car in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and a sports sedan in The Ballad of Gay Tony, Grand Theft Auto V and Grand Theft Auto Online. It is manufactured by Bravado in the HD Universe.
Design
3D Universe
The Buffalo in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas appears to be based on the third-generation Chevrolet Camaro, but there are influences from other vehicles. The headlights are circular, similar to a Opel Manta B2 and the third generation Honda Integra. A C-pillar has also been added, bearing a resemblance to a Dodge Daytona. The shape of the taillights looks closer to some third-generation Pontiac Firebird models. The Buffalo also features a ram air hood.
GTA IV
The Bravado Buffalo is a sports sedan based on the Sixth generation Dodge Charger as well as the Ford Mustang GT for the greenhouse area, front fascia and headlights. In GTA IV, the game's rendition of the Buffalo had not been made available as a consumer model, despite numerous billboards advertising the car. Rather, the vehicle is depicted as a law enforcement vehicle for the Federal Investigation Bureau, dubbed the FIB Buffalo.
The Buffalo features a custom body kit that includes larger exhaust tips, chrome wheels, and ground effects, suggesting that it is based on the Charger's SRT-8 model. Compared to the FIB Buffalo's naturally-aspirated V8 engine, the civilian Buffalo has a supercharged, high-displacement V8 engine.
FIB Buffalo Variant
The FIB Buffalo is based on the 2006-2010 Dodge Charger Police Package, and as with most cars some things have been changed and rearranged. Most noticeably the tail lights, headlights and rear license plate have been changed; also the front fascia has some subtle similarities to the 2005–2009 Ford Mustang.. Red and light-blue lights can be found in grilles, front bumper and front and rear windows. The FIB Buffalo always comes in black with black alloy wheels.
Police Buffalo Variant (The Ballad of Gay Tony only)
The vehicle is a Bravado Buffalo similar to the first and second generation Dodge Charger Police Package used by the New York Police Department, is a variant of the Buffalo, like the FIB Buffalo, and the three share similar performance.
In multiplayer, the Police Buffalo can be found at a majority of police stations, and is not accessible in single player. When spawned via hacks or trainers in single player, players can notice that sometimes, strangely enough, regular civilians may drive the Police Buffalos on streets.
The livery is almost exactly the same as those used on the New York Police Department's Chargers.
GTA V
The Buffalo returns in Grand Theft Auto V, with the normal version having the same design as The Ballad of Gay Tony model. The Buffalo can be purchased in GTA Online on southernsanandreassuperautos.com for $35,000.
Current Design Gallery
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FIB Variant
In Grand Theft Auto V, the FIB Buffalo looks the same as in GTA IV, however, more interior lights have been added to the front and rear of the car.
Design Gallery
Police Cruiser Variant
The car's model remains the same, in that it has the same body as TBoGT rendition. The livery, however, has been changed to a similar livery to the LSPD to reflect its real life inspiration. The car's emergency lighting has also been updated, featuring LEDs on the grill, roof, back window and rear lights. It is unequivocaly the rarest police car in the entire GTA series, since it only spawns in a certain part of Los Santos near the Mission Row police station, either on patrol or in the bus stop area at night, and it is extremely rare to spawn in either circumstance.
Unlike the other Police and Sheriff Cruisers and vehicles, the LSPD Buffalo does not have a two-digit number on the roof. It is, however, the only one having a badge painted on the hood. Sometimes, a version with a low-level spoiler attached sometimes spawns as well.
The vehicle has had a makeover for the Enhanced edition of GTA V. Now sports a similar livery to the older Police Cruiser, including air identification numbers and the city seal on the side and a new pushbar has been added to the front bumper. However, the characteristic badge is now removed from the hood. Also, the car boasts a metallic paint finish, compared to the matte finish of the previous version. The spoiler option remains available, and the small bug with the grill-mounted blue light has been corrected (previously the housing was white).
Design Gallery
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Version History Gallery
Buffalo
FIB/FIB Buffalo Variant
Police Buffalo/Police Cruiser Variant
Performance
3D Universe
In GTA San Andreas, the car is laid out in an FR layout, and sports a high-performance V8 engine that delivers great acceleration and speed, but comes at the cost of high rear end power, which may lead to loss of traction. Despite being a sports car, the Buffalo handles very well off road, making it a spectacular cross-country vehicle.
GTA IV
Civilian Buffalo
The Buffalo's performance in TBoGT is very good for a four-door sedan, courtesy of its supercharged 5.7 liter V8 engine which is more superior than it's law enforcement variants. As expected, the car is capable of good acceleration which is 0-60 mph in 3.9 seconds and an excellent top speed of 201 mph (323 km/h) and a 5-speed semi-automatic gearbox in a FR layout, because it is being lighter than the FIB Buffalo. While the car is still prone to fishtailing, the car's grip on the road is equally excellent. And like the Infernus, Banshee, F620, Sultan RS and Bullet, the Buffalo backfires from its exhaust when shifting gears.
GTA IV Overview
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FIB Buffalo Variant
GTA IV Overview
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Police Buffalo Variant
For performance, the Buffalo is best described as "above average". It will out-accelerate any other standard-issue police vehicle in the game, save for of course the Police Stinger, which is obviously either a D.A.R.E. car or some other community-oriented policing strategy. Its top speed, engine and weight all appear to be taken from its unmarked counterpart, the FIB Buffalo.
Handling-wise, the Police Buffalo is well-balanced, and sticks to the road a bit better than the apparently aging Vapid platform that it partially replaces. Due to RWD, over-steer is very prevalent and the Buffalo's V8 engine requires huge RPM to accommodate for it at low speeds. At high speed, the Buffalo is remarkably stable, and lift-throttle over-steer is nearly non-existent.
Crash deformation is average. In frontal impacts, the suspension appears to be tough, but its engine only takes a few good hits before it begins to smoke.
GTA IV Overview
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GTA V
Civilian Buffalo
Returning to GTA V, the Buffalo retains its mostly-good performance, having an acceptable top-speed, and average acceleration. Thanks to its sturdy front structure, the Buffalo can cope with several head-on crashes before the wheels make an average negative-camber. The braking distance is among the best in the class, and still performs just as good in wet weather, thanks to its thick tires, and its firm brake disks. The engine powering the car is a V8, being situated at the front, and having a RWD drivetrain, an average layout for sports-sedans.
GTA V Overview
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FIB Buffalo Variant
The FIB Buffalo's smooth yet potent performance gives it a big-engined, supercharged feel. It has a very torqueful 5.7 liter V8 engine (which resembles the Charger's 5.7L Hemi V8) that also provides enough power to out-accelerate most cars in the game. The top speed is relatively high, too, however the 5-speed gearbox may at times feel like it limits this somewhat. The Buffalo provides superb protection from firearm attacks or crash damage. Thanks to RWD, the Buffalo may oversteer in some cases; in others, particularly in high-speed corners, the car neither understeers nor oversteers, and gives a balanced feel that differs from most American muscle cars. This car also rides exceptionally smoothly; when on bumpy/hilly roads, the soft-feeling suspension keeps the car level and at times bounces ever so slightly. Nonetheless, it is the fastest vehicle in the law enforcement vehicle class. It is up to 185 mph (300 km/h).
GTA V Overview
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Police Buffalo Variant
There is little difference between GTA IV and GTA V, except that the vehicle is much more durable. It does have an issue, however, in that its front axle bends easier than other Police cars, especially its older competitor. It is still an excellent choice for most officers if treated right.
GTA V Overview
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Emergency Service Variants
There are two non-civilian variants of the Bravado Buffalo:
- The FIB operate an FIB Buffalo, also known as the "FIB" in GTA V.
- The LCPD and LSPD operate a Police Buffalo, also known as the "Police Cruiser" in GTA V.
Modifications
GTA San Andreas
The Buffalo can only be modified at TransFender.
Type | Upgrade | Cost |
---|---|---|
Colors | Car Color 1 | $ 150 |
Nitro | 2x Nitrous | $ 200 |
10x Nitrous | $ 1000 | |
Wheels | Import | $ 820 |
Atomic | $ 770 | |
Ahab | $ 1000 | |
Virtual | $ 620 | |
Access | $ 1140 | |
Off Road Wheel | $ 1000 | |
Mega | $ 1030 | |
Grove | $ 1230 | |
Twist | $ 1200 | |
Wires | $ 1560 | |
Hydraulics | Hydraulics | $ 1500 |
- Note: The TransFender in Las Venturas charges 20% more except for colors.
GTA V
Type | Upgrade | Cost (Story) | Cost (Online) |
---|---|---|---|
Bumpers | Custom Front Splitter | $500 | $1000 |
Custom Rear Bumper | $500 | $1000 | |
Exhaust | Titanium Tuner Exhaust | $375 | $750 |
Skirts | Custom Skirts | $415 | $830 |
Spoiler | Low Level Spoiler | $275 | $550 |
Unique Colours
Red Buffalo
Mori Kibbutz owns a unique red Buffalo that can be found in Kibbutz Number One. To obtain it, the player can take it to the parking space in Niko's South Bohan safehouse and kill Mori, this will cause to fail the mission but the car can be saved. Another method without failing the mission is to reach the destination in the map, let Mori get off and then the player can take the vehicle to the South Bohan safehouse and proceed with the mission.
It is also found in the mission This Ain't Checkers, Mori's red Buffalo, along with the other 3 cars available, is equipped with Nitro to help the player win the Triathlon set up by Mori.
Blue Buffalo
At the start of the mission Bang Bang, the player has the choice between Tony's black Schafter or a unique blue Buffalo. This Buffalo is presumably Evan Moss's car as he is the only person in the apartment other than Tony and this is the only time the Buffalo is seen.
Buffalo S
Template:Infobox vehicles
The Bravado Buffalo S is a sports sedan in Grand Theft Auto V and Grand Theft Auto Online.
Design
Formerly known as the "second generation" Buffalo, it is the facelifted version of the existing Buffalo, with a supercharged engine, new front fascia, rims and taillights based on the Dodge Charger SRT8.
The Buffalo S has a much more aggressive appearance, giving it the look of the modern American sports car. The front fascia consists of one large grille that extends from the hood to the front bumper and two smaller grilles near the tyres. On the side, there are two small CFRP panels. It also has unique rims that consist of ten spokes. The rear of the Buffalo S remains largely the same, except for the taillights, based on the Acura NSX concept. In the single player game, this version can only be obtained through Franklin, as it does not spawn anywhere else in the game world, although it can be purchased in GTA Online on southernsanandreassuperautos.com for $96,000.
Current Design Gallery
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Performance
GTA V
The Buffalo S has a slightly better performance than the regular Buffalo due to the stronger engine. The acceleration is now much quicker, while the steering has been improved. It is now capable of causing large amounts of damage without even being effected, due to its possibly-upgraded fascia and structure.
GTA V Overview
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Sprunk Buffalo
Template:Next-Gen The enhanced edition of Grand Theft Auto V features a unique Buffalo S with a Sprunk livery, exclusively for players returning from Xbox 360/PS3. This variant appears during the Stock Car Races and will become available in each protagonist's garage once the player wins the 4th stock car race. The stock cars may be modified further in Los Santos Customs including the ability to respray the underlying color. The sponsorship decals can not be changed or removed.
Like with all race versions of vehicles in GTA V, the race version of the Buffalo includes a significant improvement on its braking capability, top speed, and acceleration. And as with all racing variants, there is no improvement to handling. Despite these upgrades however, there are still much better sport-class vehicles that surpass the Buffalo.
The Sprunk Buffalo was originally purchasable from Southernsanandreassuperautos.com.
List of sponsors on the livery
Modifications
Buffalo S
Type | Upgrade | Cost (Story) | Cost (Online) |
---|---|---|---|
Bumpers | Custom Front Splitter | $1250 | $2500 |
Carbon Front Splitter | $1650 | $3300 | |
Painted Front Bumper | $1950 | $3900 | |
Painted Bumper & Splitter | $2350 | $4700 | |
Painted & Carbon Splitter | $2450 | $4900 | |
Custom Rear Bumper | $1250 | $2500 | |
Sports Rear Bumper | $1650 | $3300 | |
Exhaust | Dual Exit Exhaust | $375 | $750 |
Big Bore Exhaust | $899 | $1800 | |
Dual Titanium Exhaust | $1499 | $3000 | |
Oval Exhaust | $4770 | $9550 | |
Race Exhaust | $4870 | $9750 | |
Grille | Black Grille | $375 | $750 |
Chrome Open Grille | $670 | $1340 | |
Black Open Grille | $825 | $1650 | |
Exposed Intercooler | $1500 | $3000 | |
Hood | Vented Hood | $850 | $1700 |
Ram Air Hood | $1200 | $2400 | |
Carbon Hood | $1450 | $2900 | |
Carbon Vented Hood | $2225 | $4450 | |
Roll Cage | Roll Cage and Chassis Upgrade | $550 | $1100 |
Roof | Sunstrip | $350 | $700 |
Carbon Roof | $575 | $1150 | |
Skirts | Custom Skirts | $1500 | $3000 |
Carbon Skirts | $2000 | $4000 | |
Spoiler | Ducktail Spoiler | $750 | $1500 |
Mid Level Spoiler | $950 | $1900 | |
Carbon Wing | $1300 | $2600 | |
GT Wing | $1750 | $3500 | |
Stock Car Wing | $2000 | $4000 |
Locations
GTA San Andreas
- Catalina owns a Buffalo, located beside her hideout in Fern Ridge, Red County, even after she has left for Liberty City with Claude.
- Will spawn at the Xoomer Gas Station in Easter Basin when wanted for export.
- Available for export for $28,000 at the Import/Export dock in Easter Basin, San Fierro every Friday after completing all 3 export lists.
- A white Buffalo with a license plate reading "PULASKI" is driven by Eddie Pulaski in the mission High Noon. If the player destroys it during the mission, it re-spawn's when they get the "Mission Passed" notification, undamaged and available to be driven away.
- Occasionally spawns in a pink painted parking lot in Queens, San Fierro (sometimes locked).
- Sometimes spawns in Juniper Hill, San Fierro.
- Can be found with full immune in the mission Misappropriation and High Noon.
GTA IV (FIB Buffalo Only)
- It does not have a fixed spawn location, but can be obtained once the player has 4, 5 or 6 star wanted level.
The Ballad of Gay Tony
Civilian Buffalo
- Very uncommon unless the player drives one.
- If the player is hijacking a boat or helicopter during a Drug War, they will be required to bring it to the docks in Northwood. The Buffalo will be right in front of the player after the ending cut-scene, and it can be taken freely.
- Commonly spawns in north Algonquin in multiplayer.
- Henrique will deliver one to the player if called.
- Uniquely colored examples can be found during Drug Wars as a target vehicle for convoy missions.
Emergency Service Variants
- The FIB Buffalo Variant:
- Same attainability as GTA IV.
- The Police Buffalo Variant:
- Go to Leftwood or East Island City in Freemode, it should be parked there in the parking lot.
GTA V + Online
Civilian Buffalo
- The Buffalo can be found mostly across Los Santos.
- It can also be found on the highways around Los Santos and Blaine County.
- Can be bought on Southern San Andreas Super Autos for $35,000 (Online only).
Emergency Service Variants (Story Mode only)
- The FIB Variant:
- Can be found parked next to the satellites in Grand Senora Desert with FIB agents and scientists between 10:00 and 11:00 in the morning. Often two can spawn.
- Does not spawn in the XB1, PS4 and PC version, instead there will be two white Washingtons, Burritos or one of each.
- Can be found parked next to the satellites in Grand Senora Desert with FIB agents and scientists between 10:00 and 11:00 in the morning. Often two can spawn.
- The Police Cruiser Variant:
- Spawns rarely at the train station under the Olympic Freeway on Strawberry Avenue between 12:00 AM and 4:00 AM. At the same location the Police Bike, Police Transporter and the Unmarked Cruiser can also be obtained (XB360/PS3 only).
- Rarely spawns in Legion Square. Usually occupied by Interceptors.
- Will spawn by the train station mentioned above, when already driving one.
- Can randomly spawn near the Mission Row Police Station, with an officer inside it.
- Rarely seen driving around in Pillbox Hill.
- Commonly see driving around Pillbox Hill and Mission Row (enhanced version only).
- Spawns more often when using the Director Mode, spawning at the location "Downtown LS", setting time to "Midday" and gaining at least 2 stars, where it usually pulls up to the player (enhanced version only).
Buffalo S
- Can be found outside Franklin's house until Hotel Assassination, and outside his new home for the rest of the game (Story Mode only).
- Can be bought on Southernsanandreassuperautos.com for $96,000 (Online only).
- An all black variant may appear as a Target vehicle (Online only).
Sprunk
- The Sprunk Buffalo S can be found at each protagonists' garage after winning the fourth Stock Car Race (enhanced version only/Story Mode only).
Notable Owners
Civilian Buffalo
- Catalina has a Buffalo at her hideout.
- Dom Beasley owns an orange Buffalo as seen in the mission Targeted Risk.
- Eddie Pulaski owns a white Buffalo as seen only in the mission High Noon.
- Evan Moss owns a blue Buffalo.
- Mori Kibbutz owns a red/pink Buffalo.
FIB/FIB Buffalo Variant
Police Buffalo/Police Cruiser Variant
Buffalo S
- Franklin Clinton owns a white Buffalo S. This can be modified and will resume its state throughout the game.
Image Gallery
Civilian Buffalo
FIB/FIB Buffalo Variant
Police Buffalo/Police Cruiser Variant
Buffalo S
Trivia
General
Civilian Buffalo
- The default radio stations for the Buffalo are:
- GTA San Andreas: Radio X.
- The Ballad of Gay Tony: San Juan Sounds.
- GTA V: Radio Los Santos, The Lab (PC only) or West Coast Classics.
- The way that the Buffalo in the 3D Universe is a 2-door and the variant in the HD Universe is a 4-door is similar to how the Dodge Charger, the basis of the HD Universe variant, went from its early production as a 2-door to a 4-door from 2006 until its present day counterpart.
- The original San Andreas car's name may be a reference to the Ford Taurus. Both names are a reference to forms of cattle (in the Buffalo's case, a type of bison).
- Another possible name association is that the primary method of defense of a buffalo (bison) is to charge at a threat with its horns. As the later versions of the vehicle were modeled after the Dodge Charger, this may be the reason the name was used in the HD games.
- For any player who views their Online garage and owns a Buffalo or Buffalo S, will be displayed as the car itself. Player's upgrades remain unless changed.
Police Cruiser/Police Buffalo Variant
- The Police Buffalo (PS3/XB360 version), along with the Interceptor, has similar liveries to the police cars found in the racing game Need For Speed: Rivals .
GTA San Andreas
- The Buffalo shares its engine sound with the Alpha and the Infernus.
- Sometimes, the Buffalo at Catalina's hideout will have rain particles coming off of the rear trunk that are only visible by looking at it through the camera. This is more likely to occur during foggy weather or in the late day and sunrise.
GTA IV + Episodes from Liberty City
Civilian Buffalo
- The Buffalo shown in billboards has a large Bravado logo within its grille, unlike the FIB Buffalo or the civilian Buffalo which have a small logo above the grille. Interestingly, the billboard Buffalo also retains the police lights found on the FIB variant.
- In The Ballad of Gay Tony, if the player takes a Buffalo to a Pay 'n' Spray too many times, it will turn a unique, dark green color. This color will then be permanent, and no amount of subsequent resprays will change it. This is most likely a glitch, as almost every other car in the game will continually cycle through its color palette. The exceptions are the Dukes, the Infernus and the PMP 600, which all suffer from the glitch.
- Though the paint-job of Mori's Buffalo is regarded as unique in-game, Buffalo's with the same color can be found, driven by pedestrians.
- The Buffalo appears in Drug Wars where it is used to escort drugs. These sometimes have unique paint-jobs.
- The Buffalo features the same wheels as the Rebla.
FIB Buffalo Variant
- The FIB Buffalo has two sets of blue and red emergency lights (one set in the front grille, the other in the rear windshield), whilst LCPD cars use white and red. Red and blue are illegal for use as emergency car colors in Liberty City (New York City, due to it being against New York City code. This explains why all LCPD/NYPD Emergency vehicles have red and white lights); it can be deduced that because the FIB Buffalo is a Federal Car, it is exempt from the city's laws.
- In TLAD, it is driven by all of the corrupt Police Officers in the mission Bad Cop Drop, which is strange as two of the named ones are a LCPD Task Force set out to watch the Angels of Death, but when ambushed, they are accompanied by the FIB.
- Unusually, all undercover Police Units seen in GTA IV and the expansions use the FIB Buffalo, which being a Federal Vehicle and also rather highly priced, would be extremely unlikely. However, this is compensated by the use of only one or two at a time, or until they are destroyed by the player.
- This is the transportation of choice for FIB Agents. The LCPD nor the NOOSE will use this vehicle. When the player is being hunted down by the Police, FIB Agents will come armed with M4s, MP10s, Pump Action Shotguns and Pistols. If the player can get ahold of an FIB Buffalo, they can use it to get past toll booths without paying, sound the sirens to legally run lights and to make drivers pull over and also to access the Police Computer to capture criminals, like in other Police Vehicles. In TBoGT, they use Assault SMGs. They are the only NPCs with the ability to fire the Assault SMG through a vehicle's window. In GTA V, it has been replaced by the FIB Granger as the FIB main vehicle.
- The FIB Buffalo can be disabled by impacting one of its rear wheel wells with a large vehicle like the Trashmaster, the Securicar, the Enforcer, the Bus, and the APC. The player can then easily kill the FIB Agents inside the vehicle as it can not move.
- If you drive an FIB Buffalo while on a Police chase, the Police scanner will not recognize the FIB Buffalo and the Bravado Brand, instead, you will hear the Police scanner go off, but with no voice.
- If a police officer is arresting someone and waiting for a police car, using the FIB Buffalo cheat will make the officer enter that vehicle with his criminal as long as the vehicle is near him
- Most of the time when a FIB vehicle appears in a vehicle pursuit, they will have their lights off attempting to look like a normal civilian car trying to surprise the player.
- However, no civilian version of this car is available in GTA IV and TLAD, which makes it easily recognizable.
- In GTA IV, the FIB Buffalo is the only law enforcement vehicle that Niko Bellic can use when carrying out girlfriends on dates (law enforcement vehicles cannot be used during dates). Some girlfriends will even comment on the vehicle as a "nice car."
Police Buffalo Variant
- In The Ballad of Gay Tony, the antennas on the roof of the car seem to be misplaced, so much in fact that one looks like it floats in mid-air next to the car.
GTA V + Online
Civilian Buffalo
- In Los Santos Customs, there's a glitch that lets you remove the bumpers and skirts from the regular Buffalo.
- In GTA V the Buffalo is incorrectly classified as a sports car, as in real life, it is a muscle car.
FIB Variant
- In a chase scene during Meltdown, a white FIB Buffalo can be seen a brief moment.
- Dave Norton's GTA V artwork suggests there may have been a FIB Buffalo S in the beta.
- In GTA Online Capture Creator, the player can color both FIB vehicles to what they desire.
- The siren was altered for the enhanced version, where it now sounds like a 90's police siren. The same siren is also used on the FIB Granger.
- Evidence from the Heists Update suggests the IAA uses this vehicle as well.
Police Cruiser Variant
- It seems that it was intended for patrol, as the vehicle lacks a pushbar (PS3/XB360).
- A Police Buffalo can be seen in the trailer for Grand Theft Auto Online [1], implying that it was at first meant to be featured in the game, but was removed from the final version.
- Just like the real-life LAPD Dodge Chargers, the makeover version in the enhanced version now seems very similar to the Stanier-based cruiser, meaning that it now could have a similar role.
Buffalo S
- The default radio stations for the Buffalo S are Radio Los Santos, The Lab (PC only) or West Coast Classics.
- In Franklin's trailer, at the six second mark, a red Buffalo S can be seen at the Car Wash on Innocence Boulevard, implying that both models spawned in traffic during the beta, however only the Buffalo spawns in the final version.
- The license place on the Buffalo S reads "FC1988", an apparent nod to Franklin Clinton being born in 1988.
- If the player modifies Franklin's Buffalo S, it will respawn in the same modified state. This also works with Franklin's Bagger, Michael's Tailgater and Premier, Trevor's Bodhi and Hot Rod Blazer, Tracey's Issi, and Amanda's Sentinel.
- After the 1.14 update, the 2nd generation Buffalo was been renamed Buffalo S, to avoid confusion between the two models.
- In reality, modern-day Dodge Chargers are classified as muscle cars. However, the classification of the Buffalo S in GTA V has it as a sports car.
- For any player who views their Online garage and owns a Buffalo or Buffalo S, will be displayed as the car itself. Player's upgrades remain unless changed.
- Although it is manufactured by Bravado, there is a Vapid logo on the front seat floor mats.
- Like other personal vehicles; the car will always respawn, even if abandoned or destroyed.