It says in the first paragraph that the Turismo in GTA IV was based upon the Ferrari F430, but it looks a lot more like a 360 Modena, if I may say so.Getalanoar (talk) 21:49, June 20, 2013 (UTC) 

I can see why you would say that especially since the </span>360 Modena is in the same family as the F430. However, I would like to add that the 360 was replaced by the F430 in 2004 and thus in the GTA IV timeline it would make more sense that the Turismo is based on the F430. BetoDT (talk) 01:46, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know why it would make more sense? It does look more like the 360, so why would it make more sense if it was an F430?Getalanoar (talk) 08:22, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Since GTA IV is takes place in 2008, it makes more sense that Rockstar would base the car on a Ferrari that was in production at the time. They did the same thing with the Turismo in GTA San Andreas , which was based on the Ferrari F40 (in production from 1987-92, the year that San Andreas took place). 

However, the aesthetic differences between the 360 and F430 are quite minimal and seeing as how Rockstar did not completely replicate either design, a case could be argued for both cars being used as the base for the GTA IV Turismo. BetoDT (talk) 17:32, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

What does the Turismo have to do with this car? JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 18:26, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

C7 Corvette?

This has to be a mix of the GT-R and Vette. You can see the similarites in the roof. The Corvette is closer than the V12 Zagato in the greenhouse area. The rear lights look like a Ferrari style rear end lights, similar to what is on the Enzo. -V (Indyb25)

The rear side Windows are almost identical to the V12 Zagato, along with the semi circle rear light cutout, positioned on the corner. The bumper, with its large diffuser unit and exhaust tip arrangement is also near identical to the V12 Zagato. The front quarter duct, with its chrome strip is also near identical. The main fact that proves this car is in no way related to the C7 is that this grand tourer existed last year and the C7 was only revealed this year. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 23:44, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

458 Italia?

I think the Grotti Carbonizzare is based on the Ferrari 458 Italia with a bit of styling cues from the cars currently in the description paragraph.Here is a side by side comparrison to support my comment Andrew nicholson (talk) 15:50, August 29, 2013 (UTC)



Ferrari 458 Italia

Ferrari 458 Italia

Grotti has been a Ferrari parody throughout the Last two major GTA installments so it makes sense that the primary inspiration for the new Grotti is Ferrari's latest supercar. BetoDT (talk) 16:41, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

Red Aston Martin V12 Zagato fr IAA 2011

V12 Zagato

Except that it quite clearly isn't.
  • The front quarter duct; the Carbonizzare and V12 Zagato have a large duct, with a chrome strip near the top. The 458 doesn't even have a duct on the front quarter.
  • Red Aston Martin V12 Zagato rr IAA 2011

    V12 Zagato Rear

    Unnamed Grand Tourer (Rear)-GTAV

    Rear view of the Carbonizzare

    Following on from this the length of the first box area of the Carbonizzare and V12 are near identical because the engines of both are in the front. The 458 has it's engine behind the driver, and so Fearrari made the 458's first box area much shorter in length than the V12 Zagato and Carbonizzare.
  • The A-pillars; the Carbonizzare and V12 Zagato both have black A-pillars. The 458 has body coloured pillars.
  • The wing mirrors; the Carbonizzare and V12 Zagato have CF wing mirrors. The 458 has body coloured mirrors.
  • The rear windscreen; the Carbonizzare and V12 Zagato have a rear windscreen with a completely curved lower edge. The 458 has three linear edges at the bottom of its rear windscreen.
  • The rear quarter area; the Carbonizzare and V12 Zagato have rear quarter areas which are outlined by a curve that is contoured to the rear wheelarch that connects the most forward point of the rear light cutout area.
  • The rear lights; the Carbonizzare (with two lamps albeit) and V12 Zagato have circular lamps that are inset on a semi-circle cutout. The 458 italia has circular lamps that aren't inset on anything, but are connected to large ducts (which are not present on the rear face of the Carbonizzare).
  • The exhaust/ diffuser arrangement; the Carbonizzare nd V12 Zafgato both have a large aero unit, which can be split into two vetrical levels; the top having exhaust tips which are either side of an area where the registration plate would mount and then a lower level that has diffuser blades spanning its entirety. The 458 Italia has central exhaust tips, only has diffuser blades on either side of those tips and the registration plate sits above the exhaust tips; nothing like the V12 Zagato and Carbonizzare.
For the reasons that have just been mentioned I really don't understand how anybody could say this car is inspired by a 458 Italia, (I especiialy don't understand those who put the 458 in favour of the V12 Zagato). JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 19:13, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

458 rear end

The Zagato is a concept car and not a production vehicle so it is unlikely to see it on the streets of Los Angeles. It is also an Aston Martin which has been parodied as Dewbauchee. Had the Carbonizzare been based on the Zagato it would not have been branded a Grotti.
Also the rear of the Carbonizzare is flat like a 458 not rounded like the Zagato. The 458 also features the same diffuser/exhaust arrangement as the Carbonizzare. BetoDT (talk) 01:32, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
Those two statements are fundamentally flawed and ultimately defeat themselves;
  • The V12 Zagato is a production car, with 150 units produced.
  • That diffuser statement is a nonsense; purely because the images and my earlier statement has already made it clear. I'm not even going to present anything new because that element has already been explained.
As has been mentioned before the branding does not alter the fact of the car's design.
So far as I'm concerned this conversation is finished. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 15:17, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
If your images proved anything it's that the Zagato has some similarities to the Carbonizzare, but it's not the primary inspiration for the car. I respectfully disagree with your point on branding. Branding contributes as much as aesthetics to the parody of the vehicle. 
On the point of aesthetics, notice how the Zagato has an oval front grill, not squared like both the 458 and Carbonizzare. Other slight differences are purely coincidential. GTA is not a racing simulator and does not have licenced vehicles. While Rockstar attempts to capture the apperance of a vehicle, it does not have to be 100% true to the original. Based on this fact it is pointless to argue against one possiblity based on miniscule details like quarter panels and exhaust pipes. 
In the future please refrain from ending a conversation because someone disagrees with your stance. You are not the only one concerned here as this is a community page. BetoDT (talk) 21:36, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Branding may contribute as much, but isn't always the indicator of the design influence.

As for the aesthetics, the 458's grille is split into two sections, with a black central area. Also calling the grille "squared" is also incorrect; the 458's front bumper features a curved lower edge and the grille is contoured to that edge, in addition the sides of the grille formation are quite clearly curved as well.

The Carbonizzare is not 100% true to the original and I have never suggested it was.

"Quarter panels and exhaust" tips may be miniscule, but if you put those quarter panels, exhaust tips, diffuser, A-pillars, wing mirrors, rear lights and elements of the greenhouse profile together (slightly altered) you would get all but the bonnet, front bumper and headlamp of the Carbonizzare, so suggesting it to be something else as a prime influence makes no sense.

The fundamental flaw in the argument for the 458 Italia being the design influence is that throughout its design process the car was designed as a mid-engine, rear wheel drive sports car. The Carbonizzare is not a mid-engine, rear wheel drive sports and as such has not been designed to look like one. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 20:50, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

The only reason I wish to end this conversation is that you are not responding to the points that have been brought forward properly. Also a number of the points raised ("concept car", "grille" and "diffuser" points to briefly quote a few) either show limited research or lack of development. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 22:05, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

Please support your claim that the Carbonizzare has a front mounted engine, because unless the engine has been shown in a trailer or screenshot, we won't have anyway of knowing that until the game is released. BetoDT (talk) 02:53, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Those points were mere observations on the images you provided, as well as common knowledge about Aston Martin's racing division . BetoDT (talk) 02:53, September 1, 2013 (UTC)


The black car at the bottom has no overhead air access or the engine visisble, like every mid-engine car

The open top version has a cabin similar to that of a Continental GT convertible, which confirms that the Carbonizzare has a front mounted engine, as if the long first box area of the car wasn't enough of an indication.
If you don't want to accept that the V12 Zagato is a production car and try to divert the topic by talking about something else, then defend against this; 

We could have stopped there. We could have closed this chapter of the Aston Martin, Zagato relationship. Our customers wouldn’t let us. Two months after appearing at Villa d’Este the response had become overwhelming. We had to build it, the creation of a strictly limited run of V12 Zagato road-cars was announced.[1]

The case for this being a 458 is still very weak as there are no strong common design similarities, especially not moreso than the V12 Zagato. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 16:03, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

E-mail to Rockstar North

Eventually I was able to send an email to R* North with the question;

"After taking a thorough look at the Carbonizzare, I can see that the Front quarter panels, A-pillars, wing mirrors, parts of the greenhouse, rear lights and diffuser arrangement appear very similar to those found on the Aston Martin V12 Zagato. Was the V12 Zagato the prime influence for the Carbonizzare and if so then why was car branded a Grotti instead of a Dewbauchee?"

Hopefully a response will come through so that we can ; they look similar to the V12 Zagato's but have find out how R* arrived at the descision of branding what looks for the most part like an Aston Martin a Grotti vehicle. I see more F12 Berlinetta on the Carbonizzarre than 458;

  • The F12 has long, thin headlamp units with a strip of 8 LED lights along with one circular lamp; the Carbonizzare has long, thin lamp units with three circular and 10 LED lights. It may be possible that the F12 headlight units were used as the basis and then made more linear and the lighting re-arranged.
  • The side windows of the F12 are debatable; they look similar to the V12 Zagato except their lower edges have a sharp rise after the doors when viewed from the side. It's possible that the F12 insipred the side windows.

Apart from those two features I can't much F12 on any Ferrari on the Carbonizzare. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 01:08, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

  1. Aston Martin V12 Zagato page


After seeing the screenshot that shows the rear of that yellow Carbonizzare, are the taillights the same as the SuperGT from GTAIV? They appear very similar, which is strange because the Carbonizzare is made by Grotti, not Dewbauchee. Rlctstealth (talk) 18:48, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

It's possible that they are. This car itself is strange, really strange... JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 19:21, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure it's not a Ferrari California?

Grotti has always been Ferrari, and this car has the hard top convertible just like the california, as well as smiilar lines.

Antipothis (talk) 08:46, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Carbonizzare is mainly a Zagato V12 along with a f12 Berlinetta

Grotti Carbonizzare inspirations

Grotti Carbonizzare inspirations

I made up this quick photo to show comparsions to the real inspirations behind the Carbonizzare. It's obvious that most of the rear and side, along with the wheels are based on the Aston Martin Zagato V12 as in the top half of the image.

I think the front half is certainly a Ferrari f12 Berlinetta, as compared in the bottom half of the photo.

There's a lot of suggestions saying that the Nissan GT-R also has a part to play due to the darkened front pillars at the wing mirrors, but the Zagato V12 also has them, and besides the Elegy is a GT-R. I can't see them using the GT-R for an ispiration for other cars in the game if one, the Elegy, is solely based on it.

Just my opinion.

Please add this location

There's always at least one Carbonizzare parked in the parking lot of The Richman Hotel on West Eclipse Boulevard, GWC And Golfing Society.

Someone who can, please add this to the Carbonizzare's location, as this is probably the most reliable place to get a Carbonizzare from, as it's always there.

Please unlock the page

Can you unlock the page? There are many users who want to edit this page, like me. Thanks NFSRivals (talk) 14:03, November 13, 2013 (UTC)